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Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

  • 1.  Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 01-08-2022 13:15
    Hi Members, 

    We will be joined later in the month by an Accredited Exercise Physiologist  to do a live Q & A session on the forum. Date and time to be announced shortly. 

    In the meantime please post in this thread any questions you would like answered by the Accredited Exercise Physiologist later in the month. 

    Thanks 


    ------------------------------
    Community Team
    Natasha, Erin and Ange
    community@diabetesaustralia.com.au
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  • 2.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 10-08-2022 08:58

    Hi Team,

    My main problem with exercise is the crashing low's I can sometimes experience many hours later, even though I think I have adjusted my food and insulin correctly. This really, really puts me off doing exercise, because I don't want to deal with it and it's frightening. Then I beat myself up about not exercising! 

    Thank you for the opportunity to ask this question!

    Robyn



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    Robyn
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  • 3.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 11-08-2022 13:03

    Hi Robyn,

    I can only offer you, Robyn, my experiences when I became a gym member and had very similar experiences with hypos.

    Although now 70, I am only coming up to 14 years since I was diagnosed with diabetes.

    Within two years, I had neuropathy developing in my feet even, although my 3 monthly HbA1c was always close to 7.

    My Endocrinologist diagnosed the neuropathy being caused by the fast rise and fall of BGLs, at that stage.

    By changing my diet and exercising, along with a lower average BGL target, I prevented the progression of neuropathy and I still have good feeling in my feet.

    For regular exercise, I became a gym member and had the problems with hypos that you have described, Robyn. At that stage, I was very new to Type 1 and was still coming to terms with regulating insulin injections and carbs combined with exercise.

    By matching bolus insulin, carbs and when I started exercising, I usually finished an hour session without too many hypos. But there were days, even with testing every 10 minutes and with "hypo fixes", I could not complete an hour period of exercise.

    Although I changed to an "am -pm" split basal injection, I did not change the amount of total basal that I was injecting.

    My HbA1c dropped to 6.5 then 5.2. This 5.2 result was dismissed by my Endo as most likely to not be correct because of the number of hypos that I had experienced just prior to that blood test.

    Looking back now, I think that reading was close to being correct, because I was not using a CGM and I was waking up through the night with a lot of hypos of 2.8 mmol/L.

    By reducing the pm basal insulin and matching this injection to the amount of physical activity, I prevented most of the night time hypos.

    Even to this day, I still have problems getting bolus and basal injections correct after a period of inactivity then becoming physically active again.

    On this first day of activity, I may have to inject more bolus but on the second day, I will have to reduce both bolus and basal injections.

    Within the last 3 years, I changed to Ryzodeg (70% basal – 30% bolus) which I now inject only once at night. I still use NovoRapid for bolus corrections. Although I followed the recommendations of not changing my daily amount of Ryzodeg injection, this is why in ended up in hospital with a very stubborn hypo and qualified me for a subsided CGM. It occurred after several days of hard work.

    This was a basal induced hypo and no matter what I did or ate, BGLs kept falling. I am now confident with changing my Ryzodeg and matching this injection with physical activity. If I am not sure, I will miss the night injection and inject the Ryzodeg the next morning.     

     My appointment with a Diabetic Educator has been brough forward to next Wednesday so I will back with a CGM, making life much easier.

    Paul



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    Paul
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  • 4.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 12-08-2022 09:25
    Hi Paul,
    I was interested in the fact you had a very late onset of type 1, when you were 56 .
    Did you pin point the reason?
    I had a reasonable late onset as well, being 40, now 71 .
    At work I was using raw sewage as a seed in an analysis,  and was advised to have hepatitis B vaccination,  I was a bit wary,  but complied. Other Chemist's also had the vaccine, after 3 doses, we all had blood tests,  some of the other's needed a booster shot, or were just satisfactory,  with me, my immunity was of the scale >1000 , unreadable. So my T cells had destroyed my beta ilets  in 6 months , lost heaps of weight , when diagnosed 30.8 mmol/L.
    Take care,
    Rex





  • 5.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 13-08-2022 06:43

    Hi Rex,

    Like you, Rex, I also progressed very quickly to Type 1 at a ripe old age of 56, although I suspect mine was caused by viral infections.

    I always say my diabetes started on 13th September 2008.

    At that time, I was contracted by the local sugar mill, to keep sugar quality in the premium range. A head cold was spreading between the workforce.  Although not severe, the cough symptoms took a long to recover from.

    I had the continuous running nose on the 13th which had cleared by the end of the next day. I only spent a few hours at the mill and would spend 8 hours planting cane on my farm. Although I was burning the candle at both ends, I was losing the enthusiasm and the challenge of keeping the sugar in the premium range. I was also running out of energy with planting cane within two weeks of catching that head cold. 

    I only had one day to finish the cane planting near the end of September, but caught some tropical virus which put me in bed for three days. An appointment with my doctor was not available as there was a three week waiting list. It took me until the 5th of October to finish the cane planting and I did not go back to the mill.

    By the third week of October, I was feeling very fatigued, lacked physical strength, lost a lot of weight and could not think straight. The one thing that was not happening, was that I was not urinating excessively.

    I still could not get a doctor's appointment, so I demanded that the nurse give me a Blood Glucose test so that I could rule out diabetes. After a three hour wait, I had the test and the BGL was 16.4 mmol/L.

    I was told this was a once of reading so didn't matter much.

    Now, I had a son that was diagnosed with Type 1 at the age of thirteen, early in 1996, I had been working all day and had not eaten for several hours, had most of the symptoms for diabetes and had a reading of 16.4 mmol/L, so something was not right.

    I walked into the chemists, just before they shut and bought an Accu-Chek Performa Blood Glucose meter and drove home.

    By 10.00 PM, after a normal meal, I was feeling like death warmed up and after 30 minute period of setting up the meter, I got a BGL of 27.3 mmol/L.

    I ended up in hospital that night, diagnosed as Type 2 because of my age and there were no ketones. At the first appointment with my long time Endo, I was diagnosed as LADA, then later as Type 1.

    Just prior to that head cold, I had blood tests done and the random BGL was 4.8 mmol/L. I had showed for years, very high antibodies with blood tests but was showing no signs of illness and was very fit and in good health and my then doctor did not know what they meant.

    My GAD and IA2 antibody tests requested by my Endo at that first appointment, came back for the both tests as greater than for both antibody tests.

    He did not even bother ordering a glucose tolerance test and said I was definitely not Type 2. I saw this Endocrinologist twice a year, for thirteen years, by flying down to Brisbane. He left late last year when he became a professor and moved to Melbourne.

    I have just had my first appoint with my new Endo, when I drove about 100 km to Bowen and he travelled 200 km from Townsville to the Bowen hospital.

    Now, I had gone from being completely healthy, had a prior normal Blood Glucose test of 4.8 mmol/L but had very high antibodies which I did not know why and they were not causing me any health problems, to feeling, within three weeks, I am not well, then being in hospital with a BGL of 27.3 mmol/L within six weeks of that head cold.

    I tried very hard with my diet and exercise to stay off insulin but by April, the next year, I was using both NovoRapid and Lantus, and the rest is history.

    Paul.



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    Paul
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  • 6.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 13-08-2022 09:49
    Hi Paul and Rex

    I was diagnosed as type 1 when I was 41, now 70.  It was winter in Melbourne and I'd had a bad dose of flu.  I had been going to the gym 5 days a week for about 2 years and started losing lots of weight, (I was not really overweight, just trying to tone up) which initially I thought "wow, this hard work is finally paying off".  But I was getting a lot of symptoms which made me think something was wrong - unquenchable thirst, urinating a lot especially at night, severe leg cramps especially at night, thrush, constantly feeling hungry although I was eating more, fatigued all the time, and a small cut on my hand I'd had for weeks that wasn't healing.  

    Went to the doctor and my bgl was 25 - no glucose tolerance test needed.  She diagnosed me as type 2 purely because of my age and her advice was to not eat sweet corn or green peas or sugar ... that was it!  Shortly afterwards because of no changes to my symptoms,  I got a referral to see an endocrinologist at the International Diabetes Institute in Caulfield, had an anti-gad test (which was very new then) which resulted in a type 1 diagnosis.

    An interesting aside, a short time after commencing on insulin, I had my first, what was later recognised as, a hypo, even though my bgl was reading around 12.  I had the usual symptoms of a hypo because my body was used to having a bgl in the 20's.  All is good now, with pretty good management and no complications.






  • 7.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 13-08-2022 11:19
    Wow thankyou Paul and Cheryl for your reply.
    Our stories are very similar, the Doctor's thought we were type 2 automatically,  because of our age.
    When my blood tests came back at 30.8 he said he will do another blood test, this time a fasting test, came back the same,  and then he told me I had diabetes,  referred me to an endocrinologist,  2 week waiting time, then I asked him what am I to do in the mean time?, just don't have any sugar. Had to still go to work .
    Decided to have no carbohydrates while waiting to see the specialist,  then started to feel very bad, went to another doctor over weekend , did a ketone test, had ketone, he just said have carbohydrates,  and gave me some urine test strips, got through that time,  still going to work. 
    Endo thought I was type 2 as well, but put me on insulin, mixtard 30/70 16 units one dose a day (30% acrapid 70% protiphane) he said would only be a drop in the ocean, and would probably need a lot larger dose. 
    No,  had very frightening hypos, as wasn't insulin resistant,  ended up on very low doses twice a day, he aventualy realised I was type 1.
    So the take on this is the medical profession need to realise there are quite a few of us late onset type 1.
    Maybe it's a lot better now, I hope so.
    I have noticed the previous prime minister of uk was late onset, and she wears a libre sensor .





  • 8.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 14-08-2022 06:52

    Hi Rex and Cheryl,

    Thanks very much for sharing your experiences with being diagnosed at first as Type 2.

    There are only a few of us, at our age, that progress very quickly to be Type 1 diabetics and I have yet to meet anyone that was correctly diagnosed as Type 1 by their doctor and the common factor is age.

    I will share my experience of my first appointment with my Endocrinologist and you will just have to laugh.

    I asked my doctor for a referral to have an appointment with an Endocrinologist. We are too busy and there are no available appointments but I will give you a list and I will write the referral if you find an appointment. I did eventually track one down, Brisbane, PA Hospital, Friday 12th December 2008 at 3.00pm.

    The big day, 10 to 3 pm, "My name is Paul. I have just flown in from North Queensland and have an appointment with Professor        . I will never forget that "O!! SH -!!" expression that came over that receptionist's face. Bloody priceless!!!

    I was asked to take a seat. 3.30pm comes and goes and there are a lot of phone calls being made. 4.00pm; I am called to the counter and told that the Professor had been call out on an emergency and your appointment has been rescheduled for Monday 10.00 am. It turned out that the emergency was, the Professor was already on holidays and the receptionist had not cancelled my appointment.  

    I will be forever grateful for that receptionist's forgetfulness, as that Monday, I had my first appointment with a young Endocrinologist who was to become one of the top Endocrinologists in Australia but last December he left for Melbourne.

    Some things are meant to be and because of his advice I am living a life with very few diabetic related health problems.

    Paul.






  • 9.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 12-08-2022 09:58

    Hi Paul,

    Thank you for the detail of how you try to manage exercise hypo's.  It's reassuring to know that the juggle is real and not just for me! 

    I'm going to scale back for a little while to moderate exercise while I sort through the carb and insulin dose maze, and try to get to an equilibrium I am comfortable with. 

    Thanks again for the insight!

    Robyn



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    Robyn
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  • 10.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 13-08-2022 07:28

    Hi Robyn,

    That's the spirit, don't give up take things slowly and ask the experts all the questions you need to solve your problems. I can only tell you what I had experienced when I was doing gym sessions.

    You are not alone because I have close friend who is also Type 1 and was attending the same gym at the same time and experienced similar problems with hypos.

    I can reassure you that there are many more Type 1 diabetics out there that have similar problems when they are physically active. So, don't give up, take things slowly and you will get there in the end.

    Paul

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    Paul
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  • 11.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 15-08-2022 16:52
    Hi, 
    I know we all have to find our own way to deal with this exercise issue.
    What worked for me, particularly in scuba diving,  where I couldn't have anything to eat on a dive,  (was diagnosed with type 1,  2 years after getting my dive license,  other wise at that time I wouldn't have been able to get the license)
    I would forego my morning insulin injection,  have free food for breakfast (2 eggs, and if low perhaps a small piece of toast with it) 
    My levels would climb up to 10-12 usually,  and at the end of the dive,   7 mmol/L  only once when after the dive was it 3.9 , and every other time was a good reading. Insulin sbs lunch after the dive.
    And going to the gym in later years I always had breakfast and insulin when I got home.
    Also gives a little break from worrying about what my levels were. 







  • 12.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 16-08-2022 10:33
    hi Rex
    thats fantastic, i am a keen swimmer in the warmer months & would love to have a scuba fix, i encountered a dive instructor on a cruise trip to Vanuatu a few years ago & he said i could get a licence to dive but i did not follow up, so you maybe able to renew your licence.
    For that avoiding hypos part, i like you avoid a bolus dose before afternoon tennis, have small carb lunch & adjust after.

    cheers
    Tim





  • 13.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 17-08-2022 16:36
    Hi Tim,
    You would love scuba diving. I have been diving in Vanuatu 3 times,  stayed on hideaway island. 
    People very special there.
    I still have my licence,  just age and a heart issue ,  it would be wise not too. Still snorkel,  and have a kayak. 






  • 14.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 16-08-2022 18:25

    Hi Rex,

    I was only going to reply to your post Rex, but I will post for all.  It has been the personal experiences of people living with Type 1 that has helped me manage my Type 1.

    I often wonder how Steve Renouf managed his Type 1 as the elite ruby league player, not only for the Broncos but also for Australia.

    It is said that the definition of stupidity is doing exactly the same experiment over and over again expecting to get a different result or outcome.

     We all know, as Type 1 diabetics, if we are experiencing hypers and especially hypos, we have to do something different to bring things back to normal.

    About the time when I was diagnosed, DAFNE, dose adjustments for normal eating was being introduced but really did not take into account the effects of exercise or hard work.

    I can remember being told off by my son's doctor after he had been recently diagnosed. He was a very active teenager and I saw that he was having a lot of lower blood glucose readings, so I got him to slowly drop his insulin injection. Well, you can guess the rest.

    I have to say, in those early days after being diagnosed, I had a good team of experts helping and this is the reason why I have next to no diabetic health problems now.

    But Type 1 diabetes does not stick to a set of rules as I was, too quickly found out.

    I had been fishing for grey mackerel with my son for several days. I then went netting for barramundi by myself, using a smaller boat. Late afternoon, I checked my BGL had my insulin and meal, then I pulled the net in as the sun set.

    The wind was picking up and I had to motor about 2 km from the protection of the bay, around rocks and as I motored through a 15 meter gap between large rocks to the landing, waves were breaking on to these rocks. I dropped the anchor and picked up my small diabetic esky. I had not walked far when massive hypo symptoms hit. I got a can of "real" soft drink from the esky in the ute, skulled it, that then another as I sat propped up against the wheel of the ute. After I had recovered sufficiently, I tested and the BGL with the Performa was 2.1 mmol/L. I can only guess that the high concertation that was required to avoid danger was overriding the hypo symptoms and it was only when I was safe, that the hypo symptoms kicked in.

    Back then I was on NovoRapid and Levemir and after that event, I would not use insulin at all, while doing daily fishing trips. I would go 20 hours without insulin, eat very little, check BGL regularly, and only inject again when I was home.

    Now days, when I am fishing, I am comfortable, even if my BGL is 5.0 mmol/L, injecting 2-3 units of NovoRapid and eat to boost my energy levels.

    When I am fishing in creeks, there are rules that you have to obey. We all have Vessel Monitoring Systems so the boys in blue know exactly where you are. Instead of setting my three nets and waiting to catch fish, I use one net, 100m long, and find the fish. During a day's fishing, which can last up to 12 hours, I may have run and pulled in that net 15 times. I fill an esky, then go home; a good day's fishing, I may have three shots and a bad day, have 15 and only half filled the esky.  I don't have to go a gym; my fishing gives me enough physical activity.

    THEN there is that little Irishman called Murphy.

    There is another saying, life was not meant to be easy, but please give me a break!

    I have been going through a bit of diabetic denial, she'll wright and I know how to fix things up attitude. Well, this approach brought me unstuck the other day.

    I had been fishing, had a good catch, processed the next day and the following day, I had to deliver the fish early that morning.

    That morning at 5.52am, BGL 5.2 so cut the NovoRapid by a unit, drank my coffee quick and decided have a pie in town instead of cooking rolled oats. I had just started a new NovoRapid pen the previous night and this was on the coffee table. In my haste, I took the Ryzodeg out of my esky but left the empty NovoRapid pen. I had eaten my pie with peas when I discovered the empty pen.

    Because I knew my levels would be high, I didn't test. The next test at 6.05pm was 29.5 mmol/L and this reading even shocked me. I had been busy all day but ate junk food. Again, did not test because I knew my levels were high but there was nothing I could do and that I could fix the mess up later.

    I increased my NovoRapid but decreased my normal Ryzodeg of 30 to 20 units. Although my next BGL were 9.46pm 14.5 mmol/L and 11.03pm 10.6 mmol/L, I resisted the temptation to inject more NovoRapid. By 4.06am BGL was 4.6 mmol/L when I had a mandarin and 2 butter menthols. When I awoke again at 7.18am, my BGL was 2.8 and I had a doctor's appointment.

    Before I handed him the meter, I explained the events of the previous day, then I added don't be shocked. The first three words were, " I am shocked." Back when my son was a teenager with diabetes and playing football and if the same thing had happened to him, more than likely, I would have dropped kicked him across the room.

    This has been another wake-up call for me and it took two days of insulin adjustments before morning BGL were above 5.00 mmol/L so that I could get my fasting blood tests.

    Tomorrow is my appointment with a Diabetic Educator and I will get the approval for a CGM.

    Paul.



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    Paul
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  • 15.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 14-08-2022 11:11
    Hi exercise physiologist,
    I have always been incredibly inspired by Type1 professional athletes such as Paddy McCartin, Steve Renouf etc etc in the AFL, NRL, Basketball, where they can maintain their BG levels during training, playing in the day/night and some even have to go to work! To me it seems a full time occupation just to maintain stable levels of blood glucose. My question is firstly, before the CGM how did they continually control their blood glucose with huge inconsistencies during the sports season. Secondly, do the clubs have their own endocrinologist and diabetes educator on standby and how much help do they get? Thirdly, how strict, structured and organised are their lives doing professional sports?
    I follow the swans and have so much admiration for Paddy McCartin, a Type1.


    McCartin using the mobile phone on the field during the second quarter of the Swans clash with Geelong. He is using it to check his blood sugar levels to manage his type-1 diabetes

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    Michael
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  • 16.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 14-08-2022 11:14
      |   view attached
    McCartin using the mobile phone on the field during the second quarter of the Swans clash with Geelong. He is using it to check his blood sugar levels to manage his type-1 diabetes

    ------------------------------
    Michael
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  • 17.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 15-08-2022 13:14
    Hi michael
    I am world famous, & let me tell you that before cgm was made available, controlling bgl was a hit & miss affair, best idea was to make sure i was well over during game time & adjust with a few units of fast acting insulin post game, I suspect this is how it was managed by the elite sports people. I always wanted  to ask how they managed their gametime bgl but never got the opportunity, even bought a Brett Stewart pendant hoping to get a chance intro.

    Sometimes i noticed they seemed to go astray in decision making & guessed they were low on glucose.

    Never ending story, thank goodness for cgm.

    Cheers
    Tim







  • 18.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 16-08-2022 07:23
    Hi Tim, it's great to have a discussion with you, a world champion Type1 athlete. It really is so important to understand and take notes how athletes at the highest level can master insulin dosages for many years whilst training, matches, having a family studying etc etc. Their lives are very inconsistent and with many changes in routines. More important, famous athletes such as Swans players are role models for young Type1 diabetics. Diabetes Australia recognises this and has had many articles about their lives to inspire young Type1's. We need these juveniles to join the fold to maintain our advocacy in the community. Also, my  Libre2 CGM has made such a difference that in my own mind I am becoming a sports person.
    "Lara McSpadden (below) has drawn inspiration from other professional athletes who have learned to manage their type 1 diabetes and still go on to achieve successful careers. She credits inspiration to Australian Rugby player Brett Stewart, who has opened up publicly about his obstacles with Type 1 diabetes."



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    Michael
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  • 19.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 16-08-2022 07:26
      |   view attached
    "Lara McSpadden (below) has drawn inspiration from other professional athletes who have learned to manage their type 1 diabetes and still go on to achieve successful careers. She credits inspiration to Australian Rugby player Brett Stewart, who has opened up publicly about his obstacles with Type 1 diabetes."

    ------------------------------
    Michael
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  • 20.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 17-08-2022 09:59
    hi Michael,
    as you say, its the changing schedules of matches & training that always puzzled me how this group of sports people manage their diabetes, hope to talk to one of them soon & find out.

    I skip a bolus for lunch & play sport in afternoon, but thats manageable as it is a regular schedule, which we are all informed is necessary, but irregular timing, travel etc. that is a whole different challenge for sure.

    cheers. Tim

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    Timothy
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  • 21.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 18-08-2022 08:55

    I was hoping there would be a post regarding the definition of stupidity but Type 1 Diabetes does not fit into this box.

    You can inject the same amount of insulin, eat exactly  the same and amount of food and have the same amount of physical activity for the week and have very different BGL outcomes for each day.

    Diabetes is a very complex chronic disease and when my son was diagnosed back in 1996, we were told, hopefully there would be a cure within 5 years.

    Well, that 5 years' may be getting closer, because Type 1 diabetics may not have lost all their beta cells, and with recent new scientific advances showing that cells can be regenerated and grown and along with anti-body suppressant drugs, there may be a cure on the horizon.

    I know that I am very lucky that I still have hypo awareness, although it is at a very low BGL, I can operate a cane harvester, drive in a straight line when cultivating cane and have never cut myself when filleting fish at this low level and this level has not changed since I was first diagnosed with Type 1. All these activities require high levels of concentration and may be, this is part of the reason, why I still have hypo symptoms.

    I may have a chemistry background, but I still find it very hard keeping BGLs under control and there are limitations with the number of tests, different degrees of physical activities and change of diet not to mention the stress of everyday life, that add to the degree of difficulties that is required to manage Type 1 diabetes.

    Paul



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    Paul
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  • 22.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 18-08-2022 10:24
    Hi Paul 
    That's the classic problem with type 1, totally agree, I call them my high day's or low day's,  ie. as you said, all the imputes  the same, but high one day, the next low.  The only thing predicable about type 1 is that its unpredictable, so frustrating. The chemical background does help to control it, adjusting insulin doses etc. but it is still guess-a metric,  and when it works, you say, that was good.





  • 23.  RE: Exercise Month - Questions for the Accredited Exercise Physiologist

    Posted 18-08-2022 20:12

    Very well said Rex, the only way to approach Type 1, is to treat each day as different, be conservative with everything you do and go with past experiences but be ready for that ball that comes out of left field.